Correct me if I’m wrong, but the only arrests I know of, of someone trying to cross the border with weapons has happened along the Canadian border. Bush has suggested that one of the major reasons behind his desire to place the National Guard onto our Southern borders is for homeland security. That’s fine. I think our borders could use the help, to be honest. The great state of Oregon and its border comes to mind as well*, but who’s paying attention? Especially when all those damned Mexicans keep coming over.
I guess my only question is this: why aren’t we putting the National Guard along our Canadian borders as well? Doesn’t Alaska border Russia? What about the Russians? Why are we paying so much attention to Mexico?
Please see comments section where I explain the Oregon bit.
Did you ever hear about the us/canada smuggling tunnel?
they found it about a year ago. a 360ft long tunnel running underground to smuggle stuff past the border.
apparently its common in the us/mexico border.
alaska does border russia in the winter , there was an article a few months ago about how the russians patrol it quite well but we don’t (a few peopel got arrested + deported when they crossed the strait by land )
So, it’s the tunnel they’re worried about?
Regarding Alaska, I was sort of joking to make a point about how many other borders we have. Not that you didn’t understand that, Jon. But I wanted to say that for the record.
Perhaps we could use a few more people up there as well? I mean, if we’re gonna get all militant along our borders and all…
i think it has something to do with the level of people movement through the border…..where do we start? i’d say the worst case scenario and that would have to be mexico. we have a better relationship with canada and mexico has published booklets on “how to cross the border illegally.(though i’ve never seen one)
No, i knew you were making a joke.
I just wanted to point out that hey – russia actually patrols their side regularly
I think the whole border issue is this:
Bush is in deep ** with his approval ratings, policies, and public image
Bush has 0 chance of appealing to about half the country
Of the half that he could improve his issue with, two things drive them crazy: mexicans crossing the border , and homeland security
You make a program that addresses two concerns—who cares why or how? The people that he was losing have something new to focus on. The rest of us? Few things short of a miracle could improve his image. Its a strategic PR move.
If you’re an isolationist, yes, you can say that mexico made a pamphlet titled “How to cross the border legally”
If you’re a realist, you’d say that mexico made a pamphlet titled “So you’re crossing the border illegally. here’s how to avoid dehyrdating to death, and how to surrender to border guards so they don’t shoot you when they catch you”
i think its its the same argument as teaching kids safe-sex. would you rather people be told ‘never cross the border’ , and pretend it never happens? or say say “if you’re going to risk your life, here are some precautions”?
So, question, and I realize this might not win me a popularity award, but for the sake of discussion, I must.
Do you think that he’s doing this to appeal to some of his political supporters given his ratings are so low? And do you feel that it’s safe to say that some of his supporters (generally speaking) hold racist views when it comes to America? Do you feel then that this might be a racist issue? While I do not believe that Bush holds this type of view, I think he’s actually a pretty OK person, to be honest. I can’t help but wonder if this is indeed a strategy to gain more supporters.
We ALL know there are people driven by this sort of thing. You don’t have to be a member of the KKK to be racist.
Just a thought.
me? or Jon?
? oops….sure, but does that make crossing legal and does it protect our border? should canada produce the same thing, what would it say? and would we take it seriously……border security is border security and we will see how the southern border pans out. then it will be off to the north i guess.
I realized something today – people I’ve met who believe in creationism tend to think that white people come from adam and eve, but minorities evolved from jungle animals. I can’t begin to tell you how many people I’ve heard defend creationism like crazy one day, then say some offhanded racist remark about africans or south americans.
In any event, I think there are racists supporting the Dem and the Republican parties. But I think that the republican party caters to a certain demographic and plays off of fears held by racists – and I think this is one of those moments.
The other day I heard him say the only intelligent thing he may have ever uttered though: talking about migrant workers already in the us he said somethign to the effect of “lets be realistic – they’re here and our country depends on them”.
To note: I don’t think Bush is an okay person at all. I think he’s a pretty awful human being.
“lets be realistic – they’re here and our country depends on them”.
Yes, I remember hearing that as well. I remember thinking, you’re damn right.
It’s funny, if you were to remove all illegal immigrants right now, the freaking nation would probably stop running. Well, at least we’d notice a lot of less desirable jobs go untouched and slowly we’d begin to realize that we’d either have to start paying our fellow Americans higher wages or we’d have to agree to letting illegal immigrants work for less money AND harder just to live here.
This benefits the employers, too. Any idea about coming down on them? They’re not paying taxes nor are they paying anyone’s health care.
we’re caught in a catch 22…..force them out and we screw ourselves. for them to become citizens, we screw their takehome and we screw our companies harboring them which screws ourselves…..until those companies fire those illegals and hire new illegals willing to work for less money…..until we secure the border and get a handle on who does what. no matter what, everybody gets screwed somehow. i just can’t see a way that works other than ????
Here are 2 scary numbers:
approximiate us population: ~298 million people
approximiate illegal immigrant population: 12million
thats a 30:1 ratio. if that doesn’t seem like a lot, think of it like this: 1 kid in every class you took in high school was an illegal immigrant.
and yeah, the country would grind to a halt. our entire agriculture industry is based on exploiting migrant workers.
“for them to become citizens, we screw their takehome and we screw our companies harboring them which screws ourselves”
many are making less than minimum wage. on the whole they’ll make more – a lot more. and we won’t screw the companies, we stop them from profiting off exploiting labor. people don’t hire illegal workers to make their companies run on a budget, people hire illegal workers to widen their profit margin.
somebody’s got to lose. hey, maybe we should pay them 20 bucks an hour so Boone’s Farm Orange Jubilee Wine” could cost 50 bucks and then maybe the french will think it’s a good wine. i can stretch reality too
Mihow, last time I checked the Great State of Oregon bordered Washington, Idaho, Nevada and California. Which of those states are you protecting us from? Must be all those nuts in California.
Bush doesn’t need the polls or ratings – he is done after this term. The problem is who comes after him and is he hurting the chances fro Republicans to win in the next elections. As Greg pointed out the other day, Bush has alienated many of us – conservatives if you may – with his pandering to the left and other special interest groups that would never support him even if he gave them everything they stood for. They have agendas that have nothing ever to do with reality. Give them something they want and the agenda changes. Immigration is the classic example. No matter what he would do the left would criticize it in some way and he loses. What have you ever heard proposed that makes sense? Jon, state your case. Instead of criticizing everything, tell us what you would do. Then watch us sit back and say “you went too far” or “you didn’t go far enough”. Your shots are easy to take. Taking a stand is much more difficult. It takes principles. Something Bush has even if you disagree with him. Anyone with an opinion that differs from the left’s is labeled racist, phobist, elitist, religious fanatic, and worst of all – a capitalist.
this could be off the point a bit here but did any of you read the article about ‘snakeheads’ in the new yorker a while back? ironically, it was the ‘travel issue.’ just asking.
ScBob, yeah, that was vague. I didn’t go into the background behind the whole Oregon comment. But! Get this, the background was taken from a Michael Moore flick! He interviewed a member of the Police department in Oregon only to discover that there were only 2 people working in the entire state because funds were cut and they literally couldn’t afford paying the workers any longer. Plus, when someone called 911, they were greeted with a recording saying that someone would get back to them.
I should have explained as much. I did not. I look like a moron. AH well.
Sure, the federal government doesn’t necessarily have to help out with that, whereas the local does but that doesn’t seem very secure to me.
I’m not saying that Bush supporters are racist. NO way I would EVER say that. Ever. But I do think that some of his support base might find this whole concept appealing because, well, they don’t want no stinkin’ Mexicans coming into their country and speaking spanish and stealing their jobs (which they wouldn’t work anyway because they pay nothing.)
“with his pandering to the left”
if by pandering you mean pointing, laughing, and throwing rocks at us on the left then yes, Bush has done a lot pandering to the left
Oh, and what would I do? For starters, I would up the number of employees who work Border Control. Everywhere. I would NOT send the National Guard. I would give more funds to Border Control as well.
As far as illegal workers? I would also up the minimum wage for American citizens by several dollars. I would also pay those who pick crops, clean up trash, work in the meat packing plants, work construction, etc a substantially more amount of money. I would insist that employers behind such companies do so. I would insist that they offer health care, too. No more of this pay low wages and not pay taxes bullshit. It’s not working. Period.
why would the canadians want to jump the border? We don’t take hockey seriously here and they’re making good money selling our old people medicine.
except for that aforementioned crazy guy, of course. did you see his picture? how the HELL did they let him in the country. he had crazyeye… and a station wagon full of weapons…
Well, he was from the Maple Leaf State. We probably figured he was armed with syrup.
We seem to forget, however, that those bastards burned down our White House.
No Mexican ever burned down the White House. They’re not even responsible for Taco Belle.
oh, and on a more serious note, to be honest the illegal immigrants who I’m paying for to live here don’t piss me off nearly as much as the rich bitches who Bush gave those nice fat extra tax refunds to. I really don’t mind the illegal immigrants at all.
I notice Mihow tried to answer even though it wasn’t her I was addressing.However, Jonathan just did the name calling bit again. How hollow is this young man? I bet he even thinks Jon Stewart represents real news.
I’m out of here – my last comment has been made.
damn!!!! its getting juicy on mihow.com
the way i see it michele is, there is a reason these mexicans are working these jobs, money! call them greedy capitalists looking to make a profit, but hey, who wants to work in mexico for 30 cents an hour!!!! it’s all for bettering their station in life and their family’s? take the money back to mexico and they’re living the good life and more power to ‘em! if i could work in ohio for a 300 grand a year doing the same thing in a nicer environment, i’d commute and screw all the fossil fuels i’d burn getting there and back…..not only that….last year there was a sniper shooting commuters outside Columbus on route 70 ya know what, i’d probably risk that too….!
aimee….you hit the nail on the head. we don’t care, they don’t bother us and this is the problem! they have been under the radar for so long that this issue is turning into a joke! we can’t address an issue without defining it…we sit around and say they’re not so bad. they aren’t, they’re hard workers so we tolerate their illegality but we still have to secure the borders for other reasons. people who area up in arms about stopping illegal workers (one part of a larger argument) try and derail the conversation about securing the border. they have to swim really far, or they don’t have anything to drink, or they get locked in trucks or maybe even shot by a biggoted whitesupremisthillbillyredneckloserracistjewhatingholyrollerkkker. this is the illusionary tactic of switching from one issue away from something that needs to be done and what happens? nothing. we can sit around all day talking about what could be done, but politicians need to listen to the people and shut down the border and allow people to cross at designated areas. everyone knows this should happen. it’s real easy, it just has to happen and things will fall into place. we try so hard to figure out all the angles of life before we budge and before we know it, we haven’t moved an inch. my dad calls it “his inertia of rest.” i call it sad.
I like Jon Stewart. A lot. :]
Juicy is fine. As long as no one I know becomes enraged and hates on someone.
Tempers flare, but ultimately, I really do want to know… why Mexico and not Canada? Why the urgency now? Why have a speech during Prime Time sweeps?
I’m not hollow, I’m irreverent.
And I did no namecalling.
“last year there was a sniper shooting commuters outside Columbus on route 70 ya know what, i’d probably risk that too….!”
I risked it during the DC crap. I went to work every damn day. I didn’t, however, do much shopping back then. ;]
Great point, greg, regarding the whole danger aspect and you kinda answered my initial question. Maybe that’s why. I hadn’t even thought about that when I posted this. I need to think about it. Write more then.
I think we need a border between NY and NJ.
Build a giant fence. Keep them from sneaking in.
They’re a filthy people and they take our jobs.
would this solve anything? control the border, allow migrant workers to continue working, bust illegal migrant workers and ship ‘em home, pay legal migrants a wage and hold companies responsible for paying proper wage and bust’em if they keep hiring illegals. have legals pay income tax, social security, hmo’s, etc etc and allow them to apply for residency and citizenship like all of our ancestors did in the past.
sounds good to me. even if it probably is already on the books stating just that! maybe we don’t need reform, what we need is some common sense and a little enforcement of what we’ve already got going on. : ) who knows, maybe it’s just politics
That’s the thing, is anything being said or done to the massive corporations employing the illegal immigrants and paying them such low wages? Take the meat industry. The meat industry is a huge culprit.
Commercial farms put small farms out of business all across the United States and continue to do so. They pay low wages and can therefore charge less per chicken leg, bunch of carrots, whatever.
In my opinion, the best way the individual can help make a difference and do their part is to stop buying cheap commericial meats (Purdue, etc) and start supporting local farmers again. They do exist! We even have them in New York City. Sure, I pay a little more for my chicken breasts but they’re not stuffed full of hormones and their lives are not entirely meaningless.
pay for what you eat. You buck fifty or whatever is not supporting America, it’s hurting us. But it is supporting a few really rich people up at the top. Do not support these massive corporations and commercial farming industries. Look into it. It does make a difference. really.
My BP is high again after this comment.
From things I have read, commercial farms don’t profit by selling things for less money – they profit because they have multiple farms and a ton of cash that is invested in a diverse portfolio and can stand to lose on a bad crop season. when they charge less, its often a competitive thing to drive others out of business.
i.e.- if there’s a chill that destroys a crop in idaho, big corporation loses the profits they expected from that region. but they’ve got farms in other places that make up for it, not to mention a large cash reserve. the family farmer, on the other hand, has all their income tied to that field and goes broke.
commerical farms aren’t only to blame on this: small farms and family farms also use migrant workers too.
there are 2 types of illegal workers: the ones that fake papers and convince emplloyers that they’re legla workers, and the ones that employers just look the other way and don’t ask for papers. I think the big problem is on the latter.
Clearly you and I have a different opinion of what a “family” farm is.
Alright my turn in this wonderfully heated debate. First off we need immigrants because frankly they work a lot of the jobs Americans won’t. I grew up in a town that depends on the meat packing industry. I remember the changes that happened in my hometown when the packing plants opened and expanded. There town has doubled in size over the last 20 years and is least half immigrants and many of them are illegal. In most jobs you will get paid more if you know both Spanish and English. The illegal immigrants have fake IDs , green cards, driver’s licenses, social security cards and they work various low skill jobs. They aren’t taken advantage of. They make pretty good money at the packing plants, actually more than twice minimum wage. They also send a lot of money back to their families in Mexico. They start families here in the US – their kids are citizens. They shop at Wal-Mart and start businesses. They just weren’t been able to afford to pay the outrageous immigration fees to come here legally. If you come from a shack how can you afford to come here legally? Once you are here, then you can’t apply because you’ll be deported. It doesn’t make sense. Is it because they have brown skin that they look like terrorists? Mexicans work and they work hard and do things that a lot of people here look down on. For them it’s an opportunity. Instead of closing the borders, why don’t we look at making it EASIER to immigrate. If you want these people to be documented, give them the chance to be.
Dee, thank you so much for writing. Question: are they given any healthcare options at all? Do they pay out of pocket? How do they make that work? Do they just not go to the doctor? I guess I’m curious because I know so many people without it because they can’t afford it on their own and they aren’t offered the option through their employer.
Health benefits from the employer last I knew. I don’t think things have changed, but a lot of employers are cutting health benefits. See the thing is that these companies know they are hiring people based on questionable papers. It’s not that they don’t have any. Fake IDs are rampant and many times the social security numbers that are given are from dead people, kids, etc. They function just like everyone else. The problems are overlooked and tolerated because without the meat packing plants, the town would be nothing. Just the sales tax from the immigrants visiting Wal-Mart is enought to sweep it under the rug. The packing plants protect the immigrants, for the most part, becaues they wouldn’t be able to run without them. Sure, plenty of citizens work there too, but I remember an INS raid one year and they had to close both packing houses for a couple days because they didn’t have enough people show up to work because they didn’t want to be deported.