Freedom of Keeping One’s Head.

Feb 3, 2006

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I know most of the world isn’t online during the weekend, but I’m really itching to start a discussion surrounding this particular issue. I’m not sure how I feel about it as I was not raised with Islam. I was raised Catholic and while I have seen some pretty horrid things done to Christ over the years, Christians don’t exactly operate using the same belief system.

I will say one thing: If I were that particular cartoonist, I’d change my name and burn every trace of said comic. I get the whole freedom of speech fight and all, but I really, really need my head.

Edited to add: more violence erupts.

Comments

26 responses to “Freedom of Keeping One’s Head.”

tobyjoe

February 3, 2006

Depictions of the prophet are blasphemous to Muslims. I get that. Depictions of the prophet with a bomb on his head are blasphemous and politically insensitive. I get that.

Being upset that other people are sinners – I get that.

Taking up arms in retaliation of a blasphemous and politically insensitive deptiction of the prophet by non-muslims in a non-muslim nation? I don’t get that.

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greg

February 3, 2006

this has been bugging me all day. could you imagine the possibility that World War III started over a comic! ….if it hasn’t started already

anyhow…..there is SO MUCH the west doesn’t know about islam. they have absolutely no sense of humor about their religion and for a non-believer to defame their belief is the biggest slap in the face to them and the koran states they should take the heads of the offenders. there is no budging on that either. tolerance is not something that true islam preaches nor is equality and without either of those, there is very little room for freedom. even if these cartoons are a mistake in judgement, the damage is done and they hold grudges too, look at isreal/palestine or spain or kosovo/sebia/croats etc.

this thing with hamas winning the vote in palestine really makes me go hmmmm….it’s interesting that a known terrorist group has been picked as the democratically chosen rulers of palestinian people. it really puts some weight on what the majority of palestinians really believe. maybe the destuction of isreal isn’t all that far off. or i could be crazy

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greg

February 3, 2006

theo van gogh was murdered in denmark(?) a few years back because he made a movie that put islam in a bad light. they don’t like anyone dissing islam and they back it up. poor little theo wasn’t even condeming islam, he just didn’t portray it right.

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greg

February 3, 2006

hmmm, why aren’t we allowed to see the cartoons? i loved piss christ….how offensive could these little cartoons be???? i guess linking islamists and bombs is too extreme and i guess that’s why they want to cut peoples heads off, to prove there is no connection between violence and islam. it’s friday night and i’m lame, what can i say…are you guys out having fun or what? i’m waiting : )

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Meshbetty

February 3, 2006

Theo Van Gogh was murdered in the Amsterdam in broad daylight on a busy street. And he was in a seemingly libral city.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/3974179.stm

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greg

February 3, 2006

thanks for the clarification, i’ve got a horrible memory

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Meshbetty

February 3, 2006

I am not sure yet what to make of all of this. I was watching a piece about the protests in London on the BBC World News and yeah, people are angry about it, with good reason but people were also questioning if it is really necessary to go threaten violence over a comic.
Again I am not yet sure how I feel about it. I would be curious to see how my brother-in-law feels. He is a Muslim from West Africa, Niger to be exact. Having a name like Ali and coming from West Africa is sure to bring up a lot of intersting issues he will have to deal with in this country on a day to day basis……

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Meshbetty

February 3, 2006

yeah, It is a Friday night and I am at home in front of the computer. I know. I have no life! But my excuse is I am a stay-at-home mom and I have to be somewhere at 9am tomorrow with my daughter! Not that I really go out that much anyway! :o)

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greg

February 3, 2006

i’m just a stay at home person because going out just isn’t fun anymore……about the cartoons, it definitely is a culture clash and westerners just don’t have a clue as to what islam is about. the media shelters us, our governments try to be nice at our expense…..we’re big kids, we can take it, i think. i’ve been reading about islam lately and i can honestlt say. this could calm down or it could get really really bad.

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Meshbetty

February 3, 2006

I agree. this thing can really get out of control if we don’t watch out. I am aware of what is going on but I am not as knowledgable (damn, I can’t spell!) enough to really debate about the issue in a comfortable manner. I do know that every time I listen to NPR while taking my daughter to school I get this sick feeling in my stomach about where this country is headed. I think my daughter, who is only 4, is begining to feel my pain.(Well, at least she hears me making comments every so often about our stupid government and the like…) Living over here on the West Coast in a super libral city makes me feel all nice and secure that others feel the same as me…but, when you encounter the rest of the country….(sigh and shaking my head.) Most of what their hear and believe comes from the local news where their spin on the world news comes from a short biased segment that maybe runs for a minute. GRRRRRRRRR.

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greg

February 3, 2006

you spell fine…………

what scares me about this is there really is no way to appease the situation, hopefully they’ll calm down. this, unfortunately, is just what we are going to have to deal with more and more if we don’t get everyone to understand what we’re up against. and that is total inability to do or say anything about islam, good or bad.

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wizard

February 3, 2006

go stellers!!!!

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greg

February 3, 2006

wizard, are you drunk?

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meghan

February 3, 2006

No one over here has said to me about it personally. They haven’t boycotted any other countries products even though they reprinted them. I don’t think this country could live without mercedes, bmw and gucci.

All the stores have big signs that say they do not sell danish products. So what are they pulling off the shelves? Lurpak butter, puck cheese, camembert , brie and pickled herring. So who really cares? ( Ok there was a huge rush on Carlsberg beer!)

My palestinian neighbour kids already threw stnes at my kids and all expats seem to have this problem. No other arab child does. I don’t know how to state this nicely…Palestinians are not highly regarded here BUT…they are muslim so protected.

Do you want to see the cartoon? Go to http://muttawa.blogspot.com/. He does a great job of showing many images of the prophet

Daily Kos posted all 12 that were part of the competition yesterday.

Well, I have to go now and find french cheese and butter before they pull that!

Meg

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mihow

February 3, 2006

First of all, I need to check my email more often on a Friday night. We were home all night making notdogs and french fries and watching Numbers.

Greg, totally. Yesterday someone at work said, “You know a comic might start world war three? That’s a little insane.” You’re also right, I have no idea how a muslim might feel about this comic. I wish I knew someone to talk to them about it directly. I want to understand the enrage more.

Meghan, as always, thank you. I will repay you somehow. You always swoop in in the middle of our (USA) night with something helpful.

I think it’s safe to say that the wizard was indeed drunk.

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Missy

February 3, 2006

Geez, wiz did you go out after we went out?

Also: I love chewing gum! (Said like a 13 year old girl in a cheerleading outfit.)

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Missy

February 3, 2006

Sorry, Mihow. That had nothing to do with your post.

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Missy

February 3, 2006

Are my clocks wrong? Or are the comments showing a post time of an hour later?

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Meghan

February 3, 2006

I said something really cool and profound there. I am sure I did. where did it go?

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mihow

February 3, 2006

Meghan, I am not sure. I saw it come in (working on logos this AM) but I have no idea what happen. I saw the email. It was blank. When my tech guy wakes up, and by tech guy, I mean my lovely puffy husband, I will ask him to check the logs. You wanna email me directly? What was it? now, I am intrigued!

Missy, I think our server is set ahead.

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meghan

February 3, 2006

Ok so maybe it wasn’t so cool or profound…I am now nervous about being watched by our gov’t telephone agency…anyway the gist was..

I spoke to a friend married to a local guy. She says he is upset about the cartoon but thinks are getting out of hand and not showing the true spirit of islam and arabs in general. We need to remember that the people shown rioting and gun toting at embassies are a small minority. I will use palestine only for an example here..These people who are climbing the European Community Consulate are probably poorly educated, have low job prospects, harrassed at border crossings when trying to improve their lots in life etc…the radical imams promise them a better future. That future may not be an earthly one however.

If they had a better oppurtunities afforded to them I don’t believe the radical extremism would be nearly as lucrative.

This is just my opinion and not an educated one. sorry for typos, i am cooking dinner and herding a two year old whie typing this.

meghan

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greg

February 3, 2006

i feel that one thing non-believers face is that there is nothing implemented on the muslim side to denounce such violence as widespread as the violence travels. nobody steps up to say “come on people, cool it and think.” they are out there, but seem to be such a minority that they get drown out by the people preaching this crap.

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Closet Metro

February 3, 2006

I saw this photo in the “interestingness” pool on flickr, then came here and it started to make sense. I guess I should check the news more often.

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Robert

February 3, 2006

I have a convenient fatwa for religionists in need (yes, I do mean to be ecumenical in my prejudice).

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greg

February 3, 2006

i’m bored and i’m gonna play a little game….pulled out my koran, flip to a page and read, my assumption is that statistically i should have trouble finding justification for the actions that sparked this thread…..here we go……flip

(koran 5:72)”unbelievers are those that say,’God is the Messiah, the son of Mary.’ for the Messiah himself said:’children of Isreal, serve God, my Lord and your Lord.’ He that worships other dieties besides God, Godwill deny him paradise, and the fire shall be his home. none shall help the evildoers.” -evildoers, i thought GWB invented that.

flip2(koran 17:70) “The day will surely come when We shall summon each community with its leader. Those who are given their books in the right hands will read their recorded doings, and shall in the least be wronged. But those who have been blind in this life shall be blind in the life to come and more misguided.” – gee wiz, spiteful aren’t we

flip 3(koran 34:51-54) “If you could only see the unbelievers when they are seized with terror! There shall be no escape; they shall be taken from their graves. They will say:’We believe in Him.’ But how will they attain the faith when they are far away, since they at first denied it, and sneered at the unseen when they were far away? They shall be barred from their desires, as were those before them; they, too, were perplexed with doubt.” – can i really change my mind?

flip 4(koran 4:138) give warning to the hypocrites that woeful punishment awaits them: those who choose the unbelievers rather than the faithful for their friends. Are they seeking glory at their hands? Surely all glory belongs to God.” – this is getting kinda fun

flip 5(koran30:32) “Turn to Him and fear Him. Be steadfast in prayer and serve no other god besides Him. Do not divide your religion into sects, each exultingin its own doctrines.” – there goes secularism

flip 6 now here’s a doooosey (koran 9:4-5) Proclaim a woeful punishment to the unbelievers, except to those idolaters who have honored their treaties with you in every detail and aidednone against you. With these keep faith, until their treaties have run their term. God is loves the righteous. When the sacred months are over slay the idolaters wherever you find them. Arrest them, besiege them, and lie in ambush everywhere for them. If they repent and take to prayer and render the alms levy, allow them to go their way. God is forgiving and merciful.” – peace loving? only after the conversion i guess. the funny thing is the chapter heading this one came from was ~~Repentence~~ slay and be a repentence man????!? peace my ass

last one i’m tired of typing flip 7 (koran61:10) “Believers! Shall i point out to you a profitable course that will save you from a woeful scourge? Have faith in God and His apostle, and fight for God’s cause with your wealth and with your persons. That would be best for you, if you but only knew it.” i there’s that fight word again!

now that was fun, i thought it would be harder at first, but its all there, you should try it for yourself. granted this was directed at the cartoon fiasco….i know for a fact that if i was looking for “peace” or “love,” it would be way harder. sorry for stealing so many bytes from your server ; )

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mihow

February 3, 2006

I don’t have the Koran. I barely have a bible. Perhaps I’ll have to pick them both up. It’s curious, that’s for sure.

I have always found that when scripture is not distributed to me by an actual human being (through a sermon or the like) it reads so oddly and sounds so harsh. I just can’t do it. I know that probably means I’m going to hell (heh) but it’s just so damn hard to do.

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