The Things You Learn

posted by mihow on February 4th, 2008

Did you know that the three most expensive counties in the United States where property taxes are concerned are Ocean County, Essex County, and Westchester County? It’s a fact. And we looked at houses in one of those counties yesterday.

Toby and I went to look a houses in Maplewood, New Jersey yesterday. We fell in love with the town. Of course we fell in love with the town, to live there, homeowners pay anywhere from 7,000 dollars per year on taxes, all the way up to 11,000 dollars a year and that’s for smaller lots. The bigger the lots, the higher the taxes. The taxes don’t even include trash pickup or sewage costs.

Let’s say you get your mortgage down to 2,000 bucks a month. Awesome, right? Add on water, heat, sewage, property tax, trash pickup, commuting expense and any insurance you need and you’re suddenly well into the 4 thousand dollar range. Well, we can’t afford that, not on one salary. We come nowhere near that. I’d have to go back to work, which I think I might be OK with, but that means adding another expense to the list for childcare.

At one point on Sunday morning, I decided suddenly (in the middle of a yoga class) that we were moving back to the Washington, DC area and into rural Maryland where houses are a little cheaper and we’re surrounded by close friends with kids. (I was fed up. I had a moment.)

I get the feeling we’re going to see a whole bunch of crap before we find something we’re willing to buy. One of the places we saw yesterday was just awful. Not only was it poorly built and falling apart, but the person living there was filthy and did nothing to try and clean it up. I fail to understand how and why people choose to live that way. Do people have that little pride in what they own? I have watched people on our Brooklyn street clean their SUVs with a toothbrush. Do they give the same care to their houses? All but two of the houses we have seen have been disgusting. One of them was covered in dog piss. I have no idea how real estate agents keep a smile on their face while trying to sell some houses. They should win Oscars or join professional poker tournaments.

But I don’t want to sound totally negative. We did see one house that was well out of our price range that I fell in love with. Its only downfall was that it has an underground oil tank, which is proving to be a big headache for many homeowners in Jersey. Everything else about the house was outstanding. I immediately began putting my furniture into each one of its rooms. It was a lovely house.

In spite of the pricey real estate we looked at, my weekend was really quite great. Emory has exited The Screaming Baby Phase and has entered Sweet Baby Phase. He’s even starting to amuse himself for extended periods of time with all the new toys we got him from Haba and elsewhere. Although, for the first day or two he was more into the Haba catalogs than the actual toys. I think he’s been taking hints from the cats. If I have learned anything from cats, it’s that the more you spend on something, the less they’re likely to use it.

I went to yoga twice and I can barely use my arms today. I cleaned the apartment. I showered twice. I even shaved my legs. It’s been a wonderful couple of days and I can’t thank you all enough for your words of encouragement. You helped me (again) more than I can possibly say. I bookmarked that post so the next time Emory and I have a rough week together, I can remind myself that I’m not alone and that things will get better and always do.

UPDATE Comments are broken. Once they are up and running again, I’ll turn them back on. So sorry if you posted one and it got lost somewhere. Fixed!

18 Responses to “The Things You Learn”

  1. Becky Y Says:
    February 4th, 2008 at 12:58 PM

    Oh…my…heck! When I saw those county names, somehow I knew Maplewood would come next. I wonder if you looked at a certain family member’s home (probably not, it must have sold months ago). He makes a shit-load of money in investment banking, but even they moved further south and west to escape the taxes and high mortgage payments.

    Get out your map of NJ. See Rt. 80? Follow that west. Keep going. Almost out of Morris County? See the Sussex border? STOP! LOL Look THERE. Are you guys hoping for a train ride to the city that is less than an hour? You’ll pay through the nose just for the priviledge.

    Seriously tho, D.C. might not be such a bad idea. Taxes in Maryland must be better than here. Almost anywhere is better than here (except maybe California, Massachusetts or anywhere within 45 minutes of NYC).

  2. egirl Says:
    February 4th, 2008 at 01:01 PM

    We have family who live in Maplewood and they just love it (the downtown is so cute, right on NJ transit)...although we do have to hear them gripe about the taxes! Owning a home anywhere near NYC really isn’t affordable in a typical one income household. That’s sad to me. There are great things that NYC and the surrounding suburbs offer, but they weren’t enough to sway our decision to not live near the city. It just cost too much for the lifestyle we wanted to live. So we made sacrifices in the types of jobs we hold/held to be able to establish ourselves elsewhere and live on one income.

    You will find the home you are looking for…sometimes you just have to see a lot of dumps before you can find something with potential! In my experience, it won’t be perfect, but it will be something you can live with and make your own. Happy hunting!

  3. mihow Says:
    February 4th, 2008 at 03:06 PM

    I really am becoming more and more discouraged living here. I don’t want a sketchy hood just so we can afford to live near nyc. On top of NJs costly property taxes, NYC gets you on income. It’s like getting in both orifices at once without any lubrication or warning.

    so frustrating indeed.

  4. Nicole Says:
    February 4th, 2008 at 03:22 PM

    I wonder where San Francisco county sits on that list. My property taxes are about $8,000/year. I want to cry every time I have to write the twice yearly check. Actually I want to cry every time we pay our ridiculous mortgage, but that was our own doing so I have to suck it up.

  5. Lucy Says:
    February 4th, 2008 at 03:22 PM

    Out of curiosity, what’s the problem w/ the underground oil tank?

    As a DC resident, make sure you do plenty o’ research into property assessments down here if you decide to make the leap—values have soared down here and taxes have gone up accordingly! I know people in DC who got assessments that had gone up 300, 700 or even 1000% over the previous year!

  6. mihow Says:
    February 4th, 2008 at 03:35 PM

    San Francisco is insane as well. I’m not sure about where it is on that list, however. The real estate agent informed us of such information yesterday whenever our jaws dropped further and further every time she mentioned the taxes for each property she showed us.

    The oil tank: If they are underground, many have sprung leaks. If that’s the case, the tenant is liable for any soil damage. In terrible cases, the oil tanks leak out into groundwater and that can cost a person their entire life savings. Seriously. But in most cases, you’re looking at around 20,000 to have it fixed, cleaned up, uprooted, and then moved into your basement or changed to natural gas. The way our real estate agent explained it yesterday was the total depends on how much oil the continue to find in the soil and in order to test for it they have to keep digging and digging until it shows up clean. It’s almost exactly what was done to the cancer on my face. :} Really. I am not kidding. Does that make sense? She said you can ask the seller to remove the tank, take 20 grand off the price (if it’s leaking) etc etc. Or just hope for the best. But it’s scary and I want really nothing to do with that if we have a choice.

    We lived in DC for a long time and are well aware of their bloated costs as well. I, for one, wouldn’t ever want to move back to DC proper. I’d rather be in greener pastures near one of our family-growing friends. So, yeah, I’m sure we’d do a shitload of research should it ever come down to that.

    (Also: NYC has the highest income tax in the nation. So, we’re getting taxed out the butts on that as well. That’s what I meant in the previous post regarding getting it from both ends.)

  7. mihow Says:
    February 4th, 2008 at 06:34 PM

    I have received a couple of email and need to clarify something.

    We are very grateful for what we have and we know that we’re better off than most people in America today. I am well aware of this fact. It’s all relative, I guess.

    We would happily buy a place that was in need of some work if it weren’t completely destroyed and totally overpriced. The thing is, we’re finding homes that need A LOT of work and are still very, very pricey. For example, the house that was disgusting and falling apart that we saw yesterday was a mere 20 grand cheaper than the awesome house we saw. That’s crazy. The house we saw that was cheaper (which, mind you, was still out of our price range) should have been on the market for maybe 300,000. It was over 400,000. We can’t afford that and even if we could we would have to put another 100 grand into it to make it livable. That’s on top of all the property taxes.

    It’s like buying the car that doesn’t run and is in need of a lot of body work for the same price as a car that doesn’t run and is in great shape. That’s what we’re running into here. A car that doesn’t run and is totally rusted out for entirely too much money.

    I guess what I’m saying is this: We don’t want perfection at all. We would happily buy a place that needs work, but the money they are asking should reflect the amount of work the house will need. It’s no wonder the houses we saw in December, some of which had been on the market since June (and earlier) are still not sold. I don’t see anyone in their right mind spending a fortune on a house that will take another small fortune to fix up.

    OK. I’m actually winded. Now, I must rest.

    I am grateful. I really mean that. I’d stay here and rent until Emory was school aged if we had a yard and didn’t live under the BQE.

  8. misha Says:
    February 5th, 2008 at 02:34 AM

    I used to be a Realtor in FL and the only property taxes disclosed were the ones the owners were currently paying. We have had a 3% cap on your primary residence ever since the market started taking off, so those taxes stayed really low. I live in a unit of 4 townhouses and because I bought in 2001 and everyone else bought much earlier I pay more than double what they pay in taxes. Our millage is 2.8 (I forgot where the decimal goes – might be .0028 for all I know) which is stupidly high. I think (hope) that now you are given what your actual property tax would be. Make sure you know if you are being given actual or current taxes. But I dont know how the tax system works up there, as you well know, they are all different.

  9. misha Says:
    February 5th, 2008 at 02:39 AM

    also Boston? Its only a little cheaper but it is such a great city if you can handle a real winter and I seem to remember it had homes with land…about 11 years ago.I suddenly feel old.

  10. Susan Says:
    February 5th, 2008 at 03:06 AM

    What a cute baby!

    You should move to Spokane. Can still buy a decent house for under $200,000 here

  11. KidKate Says:
    February 5th, 2008 at 09:51 AM

    Lordy, he’s cute. (And I vote for Maryland! I am biased, of course, being new to the state.)

  12. Melbourne homes for sale Says:
    February 5th, 2008 at 02:26 PM

    I use to live in South Jersey and even though the taxes were what caused us to leave some 20 years ago they did provide alot of things for the people in NJ.

    I miss the schools not the same in Florida, the have a special prices for meds for the elderly and the cost of gas was always cheaper in NJ then anywhere.

    That being said I not sure if I want to leave Florida the weather is great, beaches and schools I lucked out with an over achiever child. It cost less here but be sure to find an area where employment is plentiful.

    There are alot of homes for sale now and great prices even new constructin. Interest rates are low and you should consider it here. You’ll laugh when you get here most everyone in our area is from NJ and NY. Guy accross the street lives in next town to where we were from guy out back two towns away.

  13. Brad Says:
    February 5th, 2008 at 03:49 PM

    Jesus, but he is cute.

  14. melhow Says:
    February 5th, 2008 at 03:55 PM

    Move here! Emory could grow up near his cousins! He could have a sweet southern drawl just like his daddy. Our property taxes would make you cry they are so low. Plus, state income tax is low. You would be astonished what goes into the details of new construction here even in entry level houses: all brick, crown moldings, spa tubs, etc, etc. People might think Alabama is backwards but even the San Francisco Chronicle gave Huntsville a nice write up recently…http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/01/06/MN4TU75AR.DTL&feed=rss.news. We also have great public schools (not all of Alabama does but here they are). Oh, and did I mention the tech companies and the government pay the same as the DC area? Rob got a raise when we moved here. Programmers and developers are in high demand:)

  15. mihow Says:
    February 5th, 2008 at 03:59 PM

    Rob got a raise?! Wow. At one point I was toying with that idea, but I like the Northeast! :] Plus, we can’t bring Emory near Emory. Just kidding.

    Generally speaking, people around here must be grossly overpaid. That’s the only thing I can think. Because after NYC gets its share, and then Jersey takes its share… wow. That’s all I can say. Just wow.

  16. S.D. Says:
    February 5th, 2008 at 05:29 PM

    Well, You could move to the outskirts of Queens like I did… ;)

    Taxes are relatively low for a Cape Style house on a 100 by 40 plot.

  17. melhow Says:
    February 5th, 2008 at 07:50 PM

    Your mom would kill me if I convinced you to move to Alabama! Yep, the companies here pay really really well. It’s the only way they can attract out-of-staters:)

  18. keith Says:
    February 6th, 2008 at 10:43 AM

    It looks to me like you’re only looking at the hell of year 1. And it is hell. The first year always sucks hard. You drop your life savings into a down payment, closing costs and all that crap, and your monthly payment is high. But, it gets way better. Those high property taxes are deductible (though i don’t think trash pickup and sewer are) . Your mortgage interest is also tax-deductible. Our government was and still is set up to benefit the land owners…

    http://www.irs.gov/publications/p530/index.html

    Anyhow, if you do a bunch of math, your actual monthly cost wouldn’t be nearly as high as your estimating, it’ll just feel that way until Uncle Sam bails you out.

    http://www.timevaluecalculators.com/TimeValueCalculators/Calculator.aspx?CALCULATORID=HF09&TEMPLATE_ID=

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